Interview with Hanna Schygulla
By Suncica Unevska
German actress Hanna Schygulla says that “Lily Marleene” was loved by everyone, not just the Germans, because it is a very delicate song. “There is nostalgia, but also a premonition that things will good. It was a great success even during the Nazi era, and on both sides of the war it caused stopping the actions. Probably, because it expresses what every soldier felt, that tomorrow he may not be alive, so it’s better to think now what he wants. And that is the woman he is in love with.”
Hanna Schygulla (1943), one of the greatest German actresses, received the Lifetime Achievement Award at the 55th Thessaloniki Film Festival in 2014. Hanna Schygulla is very special. She showed her unusuality and uncompromising commitment to the essence again by speaking on this occasion. As she said, that day she was interviewed by a Greek electronic media near the White Tower in Thessaloniki, which is the symbol of the city, and the journalist metaphorically, alluding to she left behind, asked her if she felt like living in a tower of culture. “What a question, not in the tower of culture, but in the tower of humanity”, she said. Immediately after, a woman approached her, who was selling paintings by the sea, and offered to give her a picture as a gift. “So, this is the second lifetime achievement gift that I receive in Thessaloniki”, said Schygulla.
The famous Maria Braun, Effi Briest, Lily Marleene (singer Willie), Eva from “Berlin Alexanderplatz” (1980) or Eugenia from “The Story of Piera” (1983), impress with their appearance and behavior. Vital, curious, simple, but approachable, establishes a personal, an intimate relationship with everyone, and delights with its strong individuality and personality. She doesn’t mind being asked the most about her films with director Rainer Werner Fassbinder, she knows very well what she wants and why she wouldn’t work with anyone, and even more she knows how to hear the pulse of the audience and establish relationship with her. Her concert in Thessaloniki, because she was also building a music career, proved it. He managed to take us back to the 1960s and 1970s, not only with the songs, with the atmosphere and the rhythm, but also with the spirit.
The fact is that what you shot with Fassbinder played a big role in his and your career. How did you look the movies you worked on together then, and how do you look at that time and those movies from this distance?
Hanna Schygulla: At the time we were making those films, we did not know how important they were. The Fassbinder phenomenon was, indeed, fascinating. But, in the beginning he was more respected abroad than at home. Confirmation came first from France, then from New York. Even then the Germans begin to think: “We didn’t notice that we had wealth at home.” Considering that something new was happening, there was a lot of attention from the critics. The public didn’t follow us so much, it started following us much later. But, Fassbinder did it all in a way that was so aesthetically magnificent and so discreet, and yet contrary to the conventional. Don’t forget, the conventional already existed.
Do you mind being constantly asked about Fassbinder, when you have made many other films?
HS: No, not at all, it keeps him alive. I'm even thinking of doing something about what he wrote when he was 17 years old. In addition to the huge opus he created, 40 films in just 15 years, he also wrote poetry, some essays, and has made a book of his works for his mother. He wanted to show her that he wasn’t unsuccessful even though he left school, but that he had something important in him. I want to do it for the younger ones, because they do not know him.
There is a song by Neil Young that says it's better to burn down than to die quietly, which Fassbinder also talked about. What do you think about that?
HS: That is his opinion, not mine. He even once told me why he had to make a film based on Pitigrilli's novel, “Cocaine”. Of course, everyone asked him what he thought about drugs, to which he replied that drug use shortens your life, but makes it more intense. In fact, he said it intensifies, because the drugs he is taking don’t make you have hallucinations, but, like cocaine, make you believe you have unlimited energy. That is why he told that it shortens your life. It depends on you, he said, whether you want to live longer and prolong life according to the established patterns or simply burn out.
Did you know that many compare you to Jeanne Moreau, saying that what she was for the French new wave, you were for German new wave?
HS: Probably. But for me, Jeanne Moreau was the actress who motivated me the most to dream of becoming an actress. I wanted to see her in “Jules and Jim”, in “The Night”, in “Elevator to the Gallows”...
You have played a lot of different roles, from a cold and insensitive woman to a sinner, a lonely, insecure and sad woman. “The Marriage of Maria Braun” (1979) and “Lili Marleene” (1981), both by Fassbinder, brought you international fame, but which films did you prefer the most?
HS: I always prefer the opposite, for example, my two favorite roles are Maria Braun and Eugenia from Marco Ferreri's film, “The Story of Piera”, because they understand the life on two completely different ways. “The Marriage of Maria Braun” is about a woman who leaves her real life for tomorrow. She keeps herself to what she calls real life and constantly makes some compromises to get as high as possible. Whereas, in “The Story of Piera” it is a woman who lives the moment and does it in such a radical way, that at one point she is put in a madhouse. And she also has many ups and downs. That is why I would single out these two, but also because Ferreri, like Fassbinder, was a real creator, a poet on screen.
You have worked with many other important European authors, such as: Ettore Scola, Jean-Luc Godard, Carlos Saura, Volker Schlondorff, Andrzej Wajda, and what are your experiences with American directors?
HS: No one asked me except David Lynch for “Blue Velvet”. But I refused.
Do you regret it now?
HS: No. By the time the offer arrived, I was completely exhausted from caring for my ailing mother. I simply didn’t have extra energy to spend on something that didn’t seem like a good scenario. But then, he didn’t shoot it as it was in the script. Because, if it were, I would have to be naked almost all the time. You know, that's not a problem when you're young, but it 's uncomfortable later. It was about a mentally ill man, who imprisoned a woman, blackmailed her with her child and strongly hurts her. At one point, like it was write, she even enjoys it. For me it was really bizarre and very far from reality. I didn't even want to think twice about that, whether I should make that movie. So I immediately refused.
What do you think is most important, to be talented or to have the courage to do what you believe in?
HS: Fassbinder was one of those people who thought it was not all about talent, but about having the courage to persevere to the end with the vision. It is not enough to be talented, you have to fight for it. I think you have to have both. If you do not have them, then better decide on another profession, you can become a social worker or a really good politician.
What do you think, why today's German directors are afraid of challenges? How, for example, did director Oliver Hirschbiegel make the great Hitler film “Downfall” and then the below-average for Princess Diana?
HS: Because they want success far more than any mission.
Finally, can you tell us something about the Lili Marleene phenomenon? Why did the
Germans love that hit so much, even though everyone loved it?
HS: That's right, not just the Germans, because it's a very delicate song. There is a kind of nostalgia, but also a premonition that things will good. It had such a special success even during the Nazi era, and on both sides of the war it caused stopping their actions. Probably because it expresses what every soldier felt, that he might not be alive tomorrow, so it would be better to think about what he really wants. And that, of course, is the woman you are in love with. I think that's the point.
(November 2014)
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