taboos and crossing lines

FILM+ MAGAZINE

Interview with David Bonneville

By Gena Teodosievska MA

1. You were lucky to be working with Douglas Gordon and Manoel de Oliveira, the two are very different, but each an amazing artist in their field of expression; how did you happen to meet them, and end up working with them, learn from them? I was very much into video art when I was at university. Actually, the first film I directed after graduation was a video art I made in Barcelona, and it was actually exhibited at art galleries in Porto and Lisbon. But going back to your specific question, whilst completing my 4th (previous to last) year of studies at University, I was working part time at Serralves Museum of Contemporary Art in Porto. By then I had become acquainted with Douglas Gordon's works from major exhibitions in Lisbon, so when he came to Serralves I was keen to assist the Turner Prize winner in his Feature Film installation. I was hired and it was an amazing experience to collaborate directly with Artangel (producers) and Gordon himself. As for Oliveira, it was not by pure chance or pure luck. Paulo Branco - the biggest producer in Portugal at the time, had been producing Manoel de Oliveira's films for over for two decades. Attending my last university year, my goal was to do an internship at one of the production companies that Branco ran to get closer to, the so often called, "maestro" of cinema. After being very persistent I managed to get a signed document between my university and the company and that sealed the deal - I got the placement. During my internship, executing the lowest rank in film production, I got to eavesdrop that Oliveira was preparing his new featuring international stars Catherine Deneuve, Irene Papas, Stefania Sandrelli and John Malkovich (along with his long-time Portuguese actress Leonor Silveira). The film was to be shot in several countries of the Mediterranean on a cruise ship. Excited, I immediately got in touch with the producer's right hand, who had conceded my internship, and I expressed my whole-hearted motivation to work in Olivera's upcoming film. After 3 long months of persistency and wait I was back in Lisbon for the shoot of "A Talking Picture". I started off as general assistant to the cast and crew. But a week into the shoot I was asked if I wanted to be Oliveira's assistant. A flash of doubt crossed my mind as it meant such a huge responsibility, but after 2 seconds I simply pronounced "yes". I must've blushed and shivered inside in excitement. And what a bliss it was to be close to the "maestro" –to converse, listen and learn from him. So much so, that after the film I interviewed him twice – in print form, for a French magazine, and later for B.TV (Barcelona Television). Oliveira wrote me a letter thanking me for the interviews and stated that they would both become part of his official collection at the Museum of Cinema Manoel de Oliveira (in Porto). A friend of mine who worked at the Museum confirmed this was true by sending me photos of the magazine and VHS tape when he was transferring Oliveira's collection to the Museum. Funnily enough, just last month I won an award that honours his name - the Manoel de Oliveira Augusta Award for Best Director, at BragaCine International Film Festival in the north of Portugal.

2. You have directed a dozen of short films, but “Gypsy “(2013),“Heiko”(2007) and “L’arc-en-ciel”(2009) are the ones with the most impressive festival life.. Do you have the impression that they were made a long time ago or do you still perfectly remember each shoot? Does the temporal distance make a difference to you? Yes, "Gypsy", "Heiko" and "L'Arc-en-Ciel" are my 3 narrative short films. The remaining shorts are of a more video art or experimental nature. These 3 films do seem fairly distant now - I have had the time to digest them, learn from them and moved on creatively. I still like to watch them if they are being screened at any event. I recall watching all my films back to back at a retrospective of my work in London, and that was hugely impactful, especially because I had an audience witnessing it all with me. Having said that, I still remember many moments of each film's process - i.e. building the story, the production, the editing, and what I've learned from each struggle. I take these learnings with me from one production to the next, and I use them as fuel for the classes I lecture too. So they might very well be distant in time, but they're definitely not forgotten.

3. Your focus as a filmmaker, I would say, is placed on sexual attraction and freedom of expression, two very delicate spheres of social life. Even your first feature film “The Last Bath” breathes in this rhythm. It was a privilege to see it as part of the Competition program at Kinenova 2021 in Skopje last October. What is it that “catches you” on these subjects? I am instinctively attracted to themes that break social taboos and where characters transgress. French philosopher George Bataille thinks we need to closely examine taboos for it informs us of human nature. In "The Last Bath" I explored the tension between religious values and self-discovery; the dichotomies between spiritual and physical life; rational and emotional sides. Josefina's crisis and transgression lead her to transcendence towards the end of the film.

The subjects of my films spring from an inner gut feeling, an urgent desire to explore certain topics that haunt me, or crop up in my mind very persistently. After a while I surrender to these consecutive, persuasive thoughts and start putting things down on paper.I believe I don't "catch" the subjects, they actually catch me. The motives and ideas are drawn out of pure instinct at the start and then they're all woven into a script. Writing the actual screenplay is a far more intellectual task and all the elements need to be analysed, investigated, tested and rethought. But the initial, the big idea is simply me being pursued by images and a constellation of plot points.

At a more rational level, if we want to psychoanalyze why these themes are what trigger my stories, it is simply because Desire is the motor for human life in all forms. The desire to know more generates culture, science and life as we know it. It took man to the moon and gave us language, computers, the internet, and it is fair to say that our species’ continuation alone is entirely depend into human desire. It's part of our nature. We are creatures of in extricable desire and freedom. And cinema is all about distilling and screening such emotions.

4. This is your first feature film; you are the director and also the screenwriter, how long did you spend in preparation, before actually shooting? I have found notes of my initial ideas for "The Last Bath" dating from 2010. I shot the movie in 2018. The development took a long time as I was working on other projects simultaneously. My co-writer Diego Rocha was also busy with his own projects but in fact it was up to me to push the development forward, as it was my project, my idea. But I was working for the BBC at the time and especially busy developing, shooting, editing and distributing my short film "Gypsy" –which also took a long time from the moment it received funding to its festival premiere.

5. I would say that “The Last Bath” is an extraordinary journey of erotic desire that every soul has experienced at some point in their lives, maybe in other terms, with deferent intensity, but with a very similar kind of forbidden tenderness at first sight…Did you ask your actors if they had experienced similar stories themselves? I did not talk to any of my actors about that kind of experiences. They could share them if they wanted to but I did not approach any of them with those questions. I didn't find that, that sort of discussion would be important for the preparation of their roles. All that was needed in that respect was readily implied in the script and character constructions. However, I do recall one actor leaving me a message retelling some of his experiences. This was probably a misunderstanding from a homework writing exercise I asked him to do for his character's background. Or it might have simply been an act of generosity, I don't know. I was surprised though, it was expressed with a lot of elegance and sensitivity, and I found it quite moving actually.

6. The screenplay is a bit controversial for a wider audience, but very clear and full of anticipations, I like it very much. As you also said in Skopje, the screenplay is based on a true event, of course with side effect layers you added for a richer and fresher effect. How long did it take you to write the screenplay, did you have any expertise help or tutoring sessions? Before the shooting stage of "The Last Bath" I was continuously rewriting. I received in valuable feedback in every major rewrite from a friend who had lived with nuns and had actually wanted to become a nun at some point in her life. Later I got fresh feedback from two new producers who came on board. I sent it to a few trusted friends who knew nothing about the story to get their questions and impressions too. Eventually I got feedback from a script development specialist who turned the script upside down [laughs]. It was daunting as we had to rethink basic premises of the story. I had to understand the specialist's context too, read her minds' eye. I was forced to make clear-cut choices. To risk or not to risk, that was the question.

7. How was it to create the relation between the two main characters? I have specific procedures to create characters and prepare actors for their roles. I consider myself an actors’ director as I take an acute interest and strongly believe I achieve great results in such practice. I'm overjoyed when my actors win awards as a result of our collaboration and when I see actors evolving quickly in a one or two-day workshop I devise. My technique has developed from when I was directing short-films. I used to be more stand-offish then - I still reached my intended results - but for my workshops and for "The Last Bath" I opted to work closely and intensely during preproduction. When I trust the actors have "become" their characters on the word action! then my job is 80% done for the actual shoot. During"The Last Bath"s preproduction I spent a week in Santarém, where Martim Canavarro is originally from, preparing him for the role through extensive conversations, writing and acting exercises (individually and a few days with both Martim and Anabela Moreira ). It was a joy to work with Martim, he is very generous in his performance, he is smart and open-minded, as is his mother, Paula Canavarro, who always trusted the integrity and artistry of the project.

I then had more meetings with Anabela separately after this initial rehearsal in Santarém. I didn't want to rehearse extensively with Martim and Anabela together. I preferred to keep thing separate as their characters were practically strangers from when the story starts. So I mostly had individual sessions with the two and then the magic happened during the shoot.

8. You decided to work with two actresses, sisters on screen as well as in real life. It was a great idea; whom did you chose first?

I already had Anabela Moreira in mind for Josefina's character.I was acquainted with her acting skills and her immersive preparation methods for a diversity of roles. So, she was the first actress I called for casting, along with her sister Margarida, whose work I had not yet seen, but wascurious and wanted to learn more about. They were both splendid in the casting process. Later I tested Anabela with Martim together in one casting session and as soon as it ended I offered the Moreira sisters and Martim them their respective roles.

9. How did you find Alexandre, is he a professional actor or not at all? I found the actor (and now also model) Martim Canavarro on the website of a youth casting agency based in Lisbon. Browsing through the catalogue Martim's profile caught my eye immediately. He looked exactly as how I imagined the character Alexandre. He was 13 years old, so had the right age. During casting I realised he looked older so I turned him into a 15-year-old in the film for plausibility's sake. That would also enhance the complexity of Josefina's feelings. Martim didn't have any training in acting at all and had only had a spilt second of screen time on one episode of a TV-series for teens. What he has is innate acting skills and a very strong instinct for dramaturgy. He's a natural.

10. Did you have moments of desperation during the shooting? I had difficult moments. When you cannot account for certain elements in a team to do their job properly the burden falls upon the director to cover those holes. Overall I had an amazingly supportive team, and I am thankful for the high professionalism and ambient of the shoots. Never the less, I had trouble with a few departments and had to have extra caution with certain elements every time we were about to shoot a scene. That really exhausted me because I saw myself working on departments other than directing - which is what I was meant to be exclusively focusing on.I literally looked like a zombie by the end of the first week of shooting. I then had a meeting with the HODs and things got better, but not always and not as smoothly as one would have wished. Anyway, someone has to save the baby from falling, and I totally managed it, despite having to run the extra miles.

11. You have worked with the well-known cinematographer Vasco Viana, in my knowledge he prefers to work with young filmmakers. His camera is poetic even during day light, expressing the rural and urban elements. It is also ever present and a close witness in the bedroom and bathroom, where the light is warm and has this kind of yellow gamma that makes us feel inside the room with both Josefina and Alexandre. Did you imagine your film like this visually?

Yes, of course, I planned all the visuals and mood of the film to have it exactly as it is. I had already worked with Vasco in my narrative short "Gypsy" and it was a great collaboration, so I knew I wanted to work with him again on my debut feature film. Vasco really understands what films I want to make and comes on board unreservedly. I knew how I wanted the film to look, I had extensive conversations with Vasco, showed him graphic examples about the look I aspired to attain in the film, and the end results are superb. Vasco framed and lit my film magnificently. He also helped me find the precise tone-palette of the film by co-signing the grading and colour- correction in the post-production phase.

12. The Catholic Church has very strict canonical rules for committed members, especially the nuns and their vows. The sexual restraint, self-punishment, isolation from the everyday life, are some of the numerous rules they have to follow. We have seen many films that portray the self-punishment of male members of the Catholic Church, but not so many or very few connected with female. How do you know how far can you go with that?

I was not worried with what had been made in cinema until this day concerning the canonical rules. The rules differ from order to order, hence there being so many diverse orders branching off the sameCatholic belief system. For "The Last Bath" I had to find some of the basic principles of Catholicism and then create rules and practices that were broad enough to be understood by a universal audience. So I picked up visual and expressive elements that a nun could use in her most intimate moments alone, or with God. Praying to an altar, reading prayers in whispering mode, using a cilice, are a few examples. There were other visual elements I had to investigate and select, like the cross worn on her chest, the clothes and haircut she wears, the colour of her habit in the convent are all elements that make us perceive the doctrine and universe Josefina come from. Most of the character's dialogues also reveal her religious ethos too. The strictness of her conduct makes her transgression all the more liberating. By crossing her limits, Josefina acknowledges the taboo, transgresses it and as a result discovers transcendence and self-meaning. 13. The two main characters are so impressive and alive, with diverse ways of comprehending the world around them, but when the moment comes they are one, they know what is “behind the door”. You really find a witty way to show their closeness. Those virtues are rare and unique… Thank you for kind observation. I am very glad that you express it in such a way. Both characters are in fact at different ages and stages of life but both share a certain degree of isolation and abandonment that slowly draws them together. I want to believe that they find solace in eachother. Their condition of being born into a broken family (even if within different generations) make them ineradicably united, even without perceiving it consciously. This common frailty bonds them together. Slowly we come to learn that both are also awakening to certain pulses of life. Alexandre in natural response to his teenage years, and Josefina is late to discover such feelings due to a certain repression from the past.

14. Your film had a great festival and theatrical presentation in Portugal and European film festivals are you happy with it, or you think that the film needs more time to touch the audience? The film has been touring the festival circuitquite strongly infact. Not only in Europe, but also in Asian festivals (Tokyo, Hong Kong, Istanbul, Armenia) and South America (São Paulo, Bogotá).It has also screened at 3 Portuguese festivals to date, garnering a total of 10 awards to date, including Best Film, Best Director and Best Actress Awards. It has had an international release in Japan and its national theatrical release in June, for two weeks only, in the midst of a pandemic peak, entailing an 11PM curfew every day. So two days after the film's theatrical premiere, the 8PM screening slot had to be withdrawn. That's the time when most people can go and watch films, so it was very unfortunate for all the people involved in the production and exhibition of "The Last Bath". I am currently trying to get the film back on special session screenings to try and offer spectators the cinematic experience it deserves. So to answer your question bluntly I say yes, it needs more screening time, in Portugal and abroad. 15. You are mostly based in London, but you are always very devoted to your roots in Portugal. How are young filmmakers living in Portugal, are they respected enough? Most young (and not so young) filmmakers have to juggle between different jobs to make endsmeet. Unfortunately for most "younger" (and sometimes not so young) filmmakers funding for films are attained only from time to time. There is a disproportionate ratio between the number of existing talent and the number of funding available. The sources of funding are also extremely limited. We have the National Film Board, with most competitions opening only once a year - filmmakers get ONE chance to get funding each calendar year for most categories. Then we have TV broadcasters to top up finance for these films, or commission projects for their own channels, and basically that is it. Portugal needs alternative structures, regional funds, and private institutions investing in more film financing. Our films and filmmakers are shown at the major Film Festivals worldwide annually. The number of Portuguese films produced is excruciatingly small compared with the amount of world-class festival selections and awards they attain. But the problem remains in the amount of visibility we get. There are such a small number of films out in the circuit each year that it is hard to maintain prominence and attract general attention. Usually you get one film entering a Toptier European festival each year, it might win an award, and it becomes the national highlight for that year, if it's a lucky year. Most foreign filmmakers I meet can name one or two Portuguese films or filmmakers, but they all say what a huge shame to have so few when Portuguese films are so artistically rich.

Regarding the last part of the question, it's a tough question to answer. Respected by whom? By producers ? By distributors ? I would say not all of us are. Sometimes people forget that cinema is a business, and not just pure Art and glamour. Like in all industries, things can get tough. There are many films out there to juggle alongside smaller Art-films. These don't get the promotion and exposure they deserve in detriment of larger scale or box office targeted successes. This happens with foreign films but also within the national production context - pop films, with pop themes, produced for wider consumption, are massively advertised on press, radio and television. Cast and crew get interviewed by star presenters on large audience share talk-shows on radio, TV and podcasts; alongside a ferocious advertisement campaign with gigantic graphic structures that fill shopping mall cinemas, and other efficient strategies alike. Distributors invest largely in such campaigns hoping to get box-office recoup. I think this is fantastic, but it should be done for smaller films too. Popular themed films have their audience guaranteed, it's the smaller films that need greater visibility and not rely exclusively on Facebook posts that reach a few hundreds.

There should be a bigger investment in educating and attracting audiences to Art-films too .I was at a film festival last month with an entire class of 14-15 year-olds in the audience. The festival had invited these high school students to pick a film from the festival catalogue and they chose to see "The Last Bath". The teens had their eyes and years peeled to the screen during the entire film. They laughed, they gasped, some were even replying ahead of the characters; I was in awe with such an outstanding response. It was the first time I saw my film with such a large number of teenagers packed together. So, people actually do enjoy seeing Art-films in the cinema, but for that you need an audience. You only get an audience if you invest in strategies to call people to come and watch the films.

16. How did you find Macedonia and KinenovaFF, did you find anything interesting during your short visit?

First and foremost I found amazing people. The festival organisers, obviously, but also very kind and generous hotel staff who made an extra effort to provide me with a computer I could work from, get my phone working smoothly, booked my car rides, printed my documents and even managed the hotel's music schedule according to my preferences. I stayed in Macedonia for 4 days only but managed to see and do a lot between my work. There were many highlights during my stay: the Festival's Opening Night, held at the lovely Kino Millenium, situated inside the fascinating modernist concrete GCT shopping centre; the sunny lunch we had at the extensive terrace of this same building too. I really grew fond of this 70s construction, it's also quite unique due to being an open-air building. The other brutalist buildings dotted around the city were much appreciated too. The mix with the neobaroque make over of some sites was intriguing, and I think the main square has a real cosy feel despite its monumental statues. One that called my immediate attention was the "Fountain of the Mothers of Macedonia" depicting 4 gigantic female figures in distinct stages of motherhood. I found the Old Bazaar very quaint and 'comfy', again, with many generous greetings from locals and shopkeepers. The views from Skopje's tower and fortress walls are superb, but probably the most enjoyable views were up from the Vodno Mountain where the Church of St. Panteleimon sits. The outstanding Byzantine frescoes left a strong impression on me -the crying Virgin Mary is uniqueand poignant.